Welcome to another insightful episode of our podcast, where we dive deep into the stories and experiences of individuals who have navigated significant life transitions. In today's episode, we have the privilege of hosting Ellis Craig, a United States Marine Corps veteran who has transitioned into advising executives in the national security sector in Washington, D.C. Join us as we explore Ellis's journey, from his military service to his current role, and uncover the valuable insights he has to share.
Meet the Guest: Ellis Craig
Our guest today, Ellis Craig, served as a rifleman in the infantry during his time in the United States Marine Corps. Following his military service, Ellis successfully transitioned into the civilian sector, where he now advises executives in the Washington, D.C. area. With a profound interest in national security, Ellis has dedicated his career to this field and is passionate about helping fellow veterans navigate their own transitions.
🔑 Key Takeaways:
- Transition to National Security: Ellis Craig's journey involves a successful transition from the Marine Corps to advising executives in the national security sector, showcasing the possibilities for veterans in civilian roles.
- Growth Mindset and Transition Planning: Ellis emphasizes the importance of having a growth mindset and planning for the transition after military service. He shares his initial struggle due to a fixed mindset and the transformative power of adopting a growth mindset.
- Perseverance and Determination: Despite economic and personal challenges, Ellis's story highlights the power of perseverance and determination in achieving career goals. He continued to work towards his objective of entering the national security field.
- Self-Improvement and Persistence: Ellis dedicated himself to physical fitness and reading motivational books as tools for self-improvement. This dedication kept him focused and motivated during challenging times.
- Impact of a Supportive Network: Ellis emphasizes the impact of having a supportive network, particularly the support he received from his family during the crucial transition period.
💡 Discussion Points:
- Mindset Matters: The conversation delves into the importance of mindset in overcoming challenges and advancing in life, underlining the transformative power of a growth mindset.
- Discipline, Resilience, and Hard Work: Ellis shares insights into the role of discipline, resilience, and hard work in achieving personal and professional goals, drawing from his experiences in both the military and civilian sectors.
- Building Networks and Finding Mentors: The podcast explores the significance of building networks and finding mentors in navigating through different life stages and career paths.
- Vulnerability and Personal Growth: Ellis discusses the power of vulnerability in personal growth and development, emphasizing the importance of acknowledging and learning from challenges.
- Adaptability and Continuous Learning: The necessity of adaptability and continuous learning in the face of change and uncertainty is a key point of discussion, reflecting Ellis's ability to evolve with the shifting tides of life.
- Giving Back and Helping Others: Ellis stresses the value of giving back to the community and helping others, showcasing the impact of selfless acts on personal satisfaction and fulfillment.
- Attitude and Success: The conversation touches upon the impact of attitude on personal and professional success, highlighting the role of a positive mindset in overcoming obstacles.
- Likability and Building Relationships: Ellis shares insights into the role of likability in building relationships and integrating into teams, a crucial aspect of success in any field.
- Goal Setting and Determination: The importance of setting clear goals and working towards them with determination and focus is explored, offering practical advice for those navigating transitions.
- Effective Communication: Ellis discusses the significance of being able to communicate effectively and confidently in various settings, emphasizing its role in personal and professional success.
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Transcripts by Buzzsprout:
Welcome back to unarmor talk podcast. Thank you so much for listening and watching each episode and continue pleased to share with your friends and family members and colleagues. And don't forget to leave a rating or review if you feel this is a awesome show and you can connect to all of my social media on the parade deck just looking at show notes or you can put in the search engine Mario P.
Fields parade deck and get all access to my social media. Well, let's get ready to interview another guest who is willing to remove their armor to help other people. Everyone welcome back to unarmor talk podcast for this special episode had to make it special for I consider him not just a brother but a close friend family member.
He's helped me out a lot when I developed global inspirational speakers back in 2018. His name is Alice Craig. What's going on man? What's up Mario. Thank you for having me. I'm totally excited and let's get into this man.
I love it. Yeah, let's do it. But before I get into the official introduction of another guest who's who's willing to remove his armor to help other people, I want to give a shout out a loyal fan shout out to Sergeant Major Ronald L.
Green, the 18th Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps. He's been listening and watching our unarmored talk podcast. Who knows when but I want to say thank you for what you're doing out there. Thank you for what you are doing at Southwest Airlines and everyone.
I would love for you guys to hit me up at host at unarmoredtalk .com. Give me your full name and maybe give me something you want me to mention about what you're doing out there because I love the fans and you guys know the deal couldn't do it without the listeners and viewers supporting this show almost three years now.
So thank you so much. Again, done with the admin stuff. Here we go. Ellis Craig, he is a Marine Corps, United States Marine Corps veteran. He was an 0311 for you folks who have never served in the military.
That is a rifleman. He was in the infantry when he came in, did a few years and have done a lot of things since then. He's advising executives in that Washington, Washington, BC area, and he's doing a lot more give it up for United States Marine Corps veteran and my friend, Ellis Craig.
Thank you, Maurya, for the outstanding intro. Thank you so much. I'm excited to have a chat with you today and then talk to the community. Veterans has always been dear to my heart. So I want to kind of, yeah.
take off my armor and talk about some of my experiences after I transitioned out the Marine Corps. And just share that with the community and hope they get some insight and able to kind of continue to move forward in life to be the best that they can be after they get out.
Yes, sir. Yeah, I appreciate it. Can you tell the listeners and viewers just a little bit about yourself, fellas? Yeah, so from Pennsylvania, my mom and dad, they were just middle -class family. My dad was actually a entrepreneur in his own right, really worked in the restaurant equipment arena.
And my mother, she worked for the Women's Resource Center, which is a volunteer center in Scranton, PA. And she helped domestic violence victims and other folks like that. So I'm from a community and also a family that always believed in giving back.
And I've seen that throughout my life. And so after high school, I decided to join the Marine Corps and how I kind of got there, Mario. I saw a Army guy out there in uniform, right? And I walked up to him and I said, hey, I want to list an Army.
And so he brings me in and gives me brochures and we kind of talk and all that. And he said, okay, we'll set you up for the AFFAD and we can get you going. So I kind of took those brochures out and left.
And on the way out the door, there was a Marine in Dress Blues. So I asked the guy, I said, hey, are you hiring? He goes, nah, we're not hiring. He said, don't army Air Force, but we're not hiring. So I just stood there at 17 and a half -ish.
And he said, but we are looking for, I proceeded to walk off. And he said, we are looking for a few good men. And he goes, are you up for the challenge? I said, well, what's the challenge? He goes, first getting through boot camp.
So at the time I played sports, football, and things like that. So I was always up for challenges, right? And so he said, hey, a schedule, a conversation, interview and we can chat it. you I was just, I think the recruiter, of course, it's always a sales pitch.
We get that, right? It was always a sales pitch. But I was at all with the uniform, with his presence. We talked about his travel around the world. And I knew right there at 17 and 1 half that I needed an attitude adjustment.
Young youth, I knew that I needed more. And I wanted to get out of my community and do other things and experience the world. So I viewed the Marine Corps, the military, as the ticket to really get into manhood and develop myself as a young man.
Right. Got into the Marine Corps. Paris Island, South Carolina. First duty station was at Camp June, North Carolina, Fox 22 infantry unit. So did four years there, served time over in Okinawa, Japan, Philippines, and of course Kuwait.
So that was a great. experience, it was a natural experience. I learned a lot about leadership. I learned a lot about people. And so, but one thing that happened, Mario, was just me getting out, you know, I decided to get a Marine Corps.
My mom was ill at the time, so I just kind of made this command decision. But when I made the command decision, I didn't do the calculus right. I found myself out of the Marine Corps after Desert Storm 1.
And I thought to myself that I'm honorably just arts. I've been in a combat environment. I have small unit leadership. I should be able to get a job. And that there was the trap. And that trap is called a fixed mindset.
I had a fixed mindset that I'm gonna be good to go, that I could just get out of Marine Corps and I'm gonna get hired. Not knowing that that fixed mindset was the trap, and you really have to have a growth mindset backed behind execution and planning.
So when I got out of Marine Corps and went back home, there was no resources that was really available to me for the transition. So I always had this national permanent interest in national security.
Just didn't know how to get there. And back home, I did a lot of, you know, just odds and ends and just working, you know, just day to day jobs. And so my mom was kind of ill, you know, and then she passed 95 of cancer.
And so at that time, there was really nothing there job -wise. I couldn't meet my goal in that environment, in that community. So I took a leap in faith, Mario, and went down to Washington, D .C. to a new city, to a new world, a new environment, a very rich environment for the national security community.
So let's talk about, you know, that and sorry for the loss of your mother, by the way. You know, again, there's no words that can take away any of that. The memories pain, you know, and of course, I've lost my mother, but I just want to add that to this special episode.
But let's talk about that. You made a decision. You made a decision, it was a choice. And you chose, I'm gonna get out of the Marine Corps, go back to Pennsylvania, right? Yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna go back to, and by the way, Phil's family from Pennsylvania, so I got a special place in my heart for Pennsylvania.
But you go back to Pennsylvania, try some of my jobs, my own pathway. And then you decide, I'm gonna go, I have this interest in kind of natural things, and I'm gonna go back to the national security.
So I am going to go from Pennsylvania to Washington, DC. Did you know anyone in Washington, DC when you did this? Only person I knew was my sister, and I had two cousins. And that was the support group.
Very like, they were in school, they had their own lives. And so I was able to kind of, I'm the older brother, right? And she's younger. So as a man. As a man. And my dad taught me about, you know, being a grown man, being a grown adult.
I didn't care for it too much, but. She offered. She made offer and said, you can come and get the couch. Right. So, hey, on it. So I get to the Maryland area, you know, and I'm going to go to the Maryland area.
And I'm going to go to the Maryland area. And I tell you, at that point. You know, had to feed myself, right? It's about survival. So I worked for a temp company. Right. And I was putting shingles on roofs.
You know, I mean, in the hot blazing sun. Wow. I was, I mean, I remember, you know, on the truck, Mario, where you have the boom going up to the roof. And then there's these levers and you put the bag of shingles on each lever and just keep it going because you got to do 200 houses.
You know, you got to get the shingles on the floor. And then I was like, oh, this is my five o 'clock. Right. And I was working in this, this one guy. He was from Alabama, I believe. And I mean, he was just rolling.
He was just going through it. And I think I put a shingle on the, on the belt. But the shangle broke open and the shingles was all over the place. And he said, Hey, man, this, you got to move faster.
I felt like a drunk again, right? You know, right. But I have to be myself. That was the temp company. The temp company said, we'll give you that job. And so it kind of did that. Then I got into. Like nightclub security, right?
Yeah. I started doing nightclub security. So basically I was working like three, four jobs. Wow. Ends meet without really my own apartment. Without my own credit being built, you know, it was just really in survivor mode.
I did Valley parking at a restaurant in DC called Oh, Evan Grill. And I remember just being out there in cold nights and people throwing you the keys and you got to go get the car. So during this whole time.
I said to myself, like, okay, I'm in this big fish bowl. Washing in DC. What's my pathway into national security? security because there was a point where my sister says, hey, okay, I'm moving. You got 30 days.
You know, good luck. So I remember I called my uncle, uh, former Marine, uh, he left home at 14 years old. Um, he recently passed away and I said, Hey uncle, I want to go to California, come to California and push trucks, drive trucks, because he was a truck driver.
He said, are you kidding me? You have never said anything about, anything about trucks. I said, well, what's going on out there? I said, it's just tough and I, you know, I'm just odd jobs and just trying to make it.
He goes, well, you have all your faculties. I said, correct. Um, no medical issues. Correct. So all you need is grit. Like the Marine Corps called you. I said, yes. He said, so work those three jobs and put a plan into action.
Um, and, uh, I'm not letting you come to California. You need to stay there and fight for your goal. fight for your dream, your aspirations. So on the phone, I was mad. I was mad because I was looking for a way out.
And so kept working these things, just odd jobs, odd jobs. And I remember I had to find a room to rent, and I found one in a neighborhood that was distressed and met the lady. It was an apartment, her own apartment.
And she goes, OK, you can stay here for 90 bucks a week. I will not give you a key. Don't touch my refrigerator. And don't be late with my $90. So OK, so how do I get into the house? She goes, when I get home.
So I'm sitting outside, 5 o 'clock getting off work, and waiting for her to come home at 9 o 'clock, just sitting outside on the stoop. Right? Just about six, eight months. And so I remember one day she opened the door.
She gets home, open wide walking. And then I go to the room. I was sharing a room with her son. And he was about 17, big guy, and was a bunk bed, Mario. And so he's in the top bed, and I'm on the bottom.
And he would get up into the bed, and the mattress would sink. And I saw the springs. And the springs were like maybe a foot from my face. And he was snoring. And I said, right then and there, where are you going?
What is going on? I was praying. Yeah. And you know, Alice, and I love how you talked about your emotions as you made this move up to Maryland and the Washington DC area. And on our podcast, again, it's about thinking through things, thinking to improve the outcome situation.
And here you are, you have this emotion where, and by the way, everyone, Natasha is his sister, previous episode, she's amazing. Matter of fact, I think Alice is making her coffee in the morning, but seriously, and like you said, you were raised with this belief system, men provide, and here it is, your little sister saying, hey, I have a couch, and your emotions like, this is stupid, I shouldn't be doing this, and then how you thought through that, which now got you too.
You're in a situation where you have this, we'll just say seven foot five, 17 year old, if you will. We know it wasn't Mario size. But I want to highlight that because do you see how it improved somewhat the situation when you thought through those emotions.
And so now here you are, you're waking up, you're going, all right, man, we gotta do something, talk to us, right, right, right. So at that point, And I always see these these springs I said to myself that The reason why I'm here because I'm not poor or is a distressed mindset, right?
It's a mind I've been in countries like Philippines where I saw what poor look like But I was economically broke and that very moment I said I'm going to change this and I knew I had to get out of this environment I needed a one bedroom apartment for me So I did find that and when I found that Mario, here's what I did And that one bedroom apartment I Dedicated myself every day push -ups sit -ups Reading motivational books and making a promise to myself.
I won't be Economically broke. I will get into the national community Um arena arena, right? I'll be successful and success is different for everyone Yeah, being in that space. Here's what I did in that space.
I went dark for six to eight months What I mean by that is no clubs Really try to limit contact with the world work Save stay focused And execute So what happened was when I stayed focused and I started to execute when I'm being by executing just Getting some some money, right?
Getting little savings going feeling decent about myself, right? Right? Doing a lot of reading on national security and here's one thing I did that really changed my paradigm. I would listen to c -span What anything national security Anything national security, right?
Because I said if I want to be it I gotta live it. I gotta see it. I gotta hear it, right? and so Went through that went through that dark period got my footing if you will right and then I saw this job announcement just came out the the blue in the newspaper at the time was just in the newspaper.
Veterans encouraged to apply. What was that again? That was 1960. 1997, 1998. Yeah. We always put humor. Yeah, absolutely. Right. And I applied, right? And it was a federal government job. And so I applied.
My BD 214 was to ticket in. They'll train you up, top secret clearance and all that good stuff. And so I got the job. I felt proud. I felt relieved that I had a benefit package. Right? My life, health care, dental, and retirement.
But there was another challenge within that system. I'm in this law enforcement engagement arena. But I said the National Security Intelligence Apparatus is where I want to go. So I had to really learn the tradecraft first, right?
Get mentors, talk to people, engage people, you know, kind of put in my work, putting that body of work. And so I had mentors that I seek out. And I think as veterans, transitioning veterans, you have to be honest with yourself sometime.
And I came to the table talking to these mentors with humility and said, I don't know. Right. Here's my resume. I don't know if it's right or wrong. Here's my elevator pitch. I don't know if it's right or wrong.
So being vulnerable, because it's hard to be vulnerable when your a Marine, when your mentor's got a land, he's a Marine and he's a major. And you're very cautious on how you communicate with that S .R .S .A.
major. Because you don't want to look illiquid, right? You know, and so I had these areas of vulnerability. And I would tell the people that are listening to this that there's a whole variety of people out here that is willing to help, whether it's veterans or non -veterans or whatever community that you're in.
And I think what's important is to come to those engagements with an attitude that I don't know and will you help me? Right. I've removed that hardcore barrier that I can charge the hill by myself, right?
Because I tried to charge it by myself and it didn't work. I thought the metals, I thought the America would say, I thank you and I'm gonna give you a job. Corporate America does not give you a job because you serve.
So that was that fixed mindset I had. So I turned it into that growth mindset and said, I have to add value. So I outworked my peers on the job, right? Then I got into saying, okay, I need to leave. After you kind of get comfortable in your world, my mentor said, hey, you need to leave this agency and go to another agency.
Right. More in spring. Right. So I started moving around, but when I moved around Mario, Another vulnerability was I moved around to these different agencies, but my network was at the last agency. So I felt alone again.
You know, I had the job, maybe 40k 50k, but I was in a new environment like NASA scientists and engineers. Where's my mentor? Where's my safety net? There wasn't one. So there was a point in my career where I just kind of gradually matured and graduated into a place that you are good enough.
Come to the table with your credibility. Take all the traits and all the skills and capabilities you learned in the Marine Corps. Take all the stuff that you learned from your parents and just show up at work and outmaneuver your peers outmaneuver your colleagues.
And then it hit me do that. And if they like you, if people like you, most likely they'll help you. It's called the likeability attribute. Yeah, so during all of this, you know, all of the, the, the wonderful choices that you made.
And I love how you mentioned the importance of building your network with mentors. At what, was there a point where you experienced an emotion or emotions where, where you felt like you're not, you know, you're not successful enough.
You know, you started comparing yourself to people that's been in the NASA industry or these other industries, and you're going, okay, I'm just not there. Have you ever experienced that challenge and how did you think through that?
Yeah, I have. So I'll fast forward and spend time at the Pentagon. And I was in this policy shop. And one of the, one of the unique skills or technical skills was writing utility, the ability to write at the separate level.
That's what I lacked, right. And so I remember had to kind of produce this writing sample, you know, for work. It was a draft document. And in writing that putting that together Mario, yeah, I felt that, you know, I don't know if this is going to meet the math, right.
And so, once I, you know, gave that product to my senior leader and at the time, this senior leader was Mr. Jeffrey Bear, retired Colonel Marine Corps. Last I heard him stationed in Kwanaka, but he was the SES at the Pentagon.
And I gave him this product to review. And it was Friday night, I believe. Mm hmm. The context wasn't there. I knew the framework wasn't there. I just didn't have that writing experience at that level.
I had that technical operational. I didn't get the bill. And, but here's one thing that he did. He said it was Friday night, Friday evening. He said, hey, you got a second before you go home. I said, I do, sir.
He broke, he broke out the red pen, grabbed the document, kind of made his notes, reorganized, did some soft organizing. But he did ask me, well, why did you think about this? Why did you think about that?
And we kind of went through the drill. And then here's one thing he told me, he said, hey, I want you to really tell me, you know, how you got to this finished product. What was the framework? You know, how'd you do that?
And he said, be open with me. And I said, well, you know, I described, you know, how I got from point A to point B in writing this product. It was a classified product, right? And so we went through that drill, but he spent time with me.
And after we left about an hour later, I had built this new confidence. Stay with us. We'll be right back. Hello! Thank y 'all for watching Bougie Buy You, which is podcast. I'm Tony the host and this is...
Come on, I'm the co -host. I'm Stephanie the guest. We're gonna be talking about red flags. You want to take back two, three days later? Like, sorry, don't leave one box. Right. Two, three days later.
Like, why are you even buying that? I don't rehire somebody. But what about like, guys, I mean, you know, what if the guy that shits, he stays on the go? If he ain't no truck driver and if he ain't a passenger, I got to eat trev, right?
You need to call me sometimes and you ain't home. So I know you ain't hiding this Sherleen back there. To be able to write at the executive level, to build these one -pagers for executives. So it really, I was scared about the taking on the task, but after having that conversation with my senior leader, he did what leaders always do.
It's okay. You got a vulnerability here. Let me walk you through this. So I embraced that conversation. I took it back with me. I learned from it. So in the intel community, yeah, writing utility is big and that could be scary.
Briefing capability is big and that could be scary. Right. Another area that I had to overcome. I had this presence. Managers saw this presence and they say, hey, we'll put you in front of the undersecretary or some front of senior leadership to communicate this out.
And of course, fear is always in place, right? But you have to embrace that fear. And I said to myself, public speaking, I'm an infantry guy. I mean, I'll put the patches together and backseat. No, no, no, we want you to brief.
So that was a struggle for me. And I knew if I was going to be in the intel community working as an XO, executive officer, of support senior leaders, that's part of the job. And so I got into room, I got into those rooms and I stayed in the cockpit, Mario.
I stayed in the cockpit. Yeah. And I gave that presence to the senior leadership. I looked them in the eyes, you know? I spoke with confidence. And if I didn't know something, I said I didn't know, right?
But there was some tough times briefing senior leaders where, yeah, I was afraid. But after repetition over and over again, and then getting feedback became, I got good at it. Yeah. Yeah, well, you know, I could talk to you forever.
But I know you've helped me so much and you're having so much fun doing what you do for our nation. So before I, because if not, I'll hijack you. But before I let you go, looking back from going from this 17 year old kid who asked the Marine recruiter, are you hiring?
And then your journey in the Marines and then going from Pennsylvania to Maryland and to Washington, DC area, going into an industry that you have no idea kind of what you're getting into, living on a couch and man, looking back at all of that to where you are today.
And everyone, by the way, and I'll let Ellis tell you guys how you can, you guys can find them and you guys can learn more. But now looking at you today, if you had to pick one thing to give, not just the transitioning service member, but anyone, what one piece of advice would you give them?
What transitioning service member? Or anyone, not just the transitioning service member, anybody. Yeah, I would say this, you know, you know, life is hard. It's going to be hard. I think for me, and to pass this on to the community would be attitude, like your attitude toward life and day to day.
You know, there's times Mario where I don't want to work out. Right. I don't want to work out, but I fool myself. I go, let's just do two miles on the treadmill instead of five. And let's do 20 push ups instead of 50.
And you know what happens once you get into that workout, you get pumped and you do more. So I would tell people that hell with motivation. Why? Because motivation is fleeting. it goes away, it ebbs and flows.
The real ticket to my success and anyone's success, because it integrates back and forth, no matter what spectrum of the world you're on in corporate America, is discipline. Discipline, I found discipline to be the key to success, whatever you want to do, right?
And that is sticking with the plan day in and day out. And one thing I've learned, I don't tell people what I'm doing all the time. I set my goal, because I don't need anyone telling me that I can't reach that goal, or their own perspectives about why you won't reach the goal.
Go in the dark, do the work, have the discipline. And if you are the smartest in your circle, we all know this, right? Find another circle, get another orbit. And then lastly, I would tell everyone, you can be technically sound, you can be highly educated.
If you're not likeable, if you can't integrate into the team, you won't win. Yeah. Because people like me, I have humility. And also I want to give back. I'm always trying to help people. And when you're helping people and you're bringing value to any organization or value into your community, your local community, it gets noticed.
And the doors do open up. Well, everyone, you guys heard it, you know, attitude starts everything. It's a choice. It's grounded by discipline, your authenticity to want to care. You know, give back, be a contributor to your community.
But everything, all these amazing things. Alice mentioned starts with attitude. And I love that. I think I heard her saying this is altitude is the attitude and attitude is the altitude analysis given that to us.
I will in you can invoice me I'll pay it next year. Yeah, one day, I just want to integrate this into the conversation. So, after, you know, after all this that we discussed, and my favorite highlight in my past time is I'm a career readiness instructor with four block for block is a nonprofit to help.
And that's what I was going to tell you how can they find you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you can go to four block .org and and click on staff you're seeing there connect on LinkedIn as well, but to be able to stand in front of oh sixes and below, and then, and walk them through a transition.
It's just full circle is full circle for me. Nice and connect with Ellis on LinkedIn to you guys. He is a wealth of knowledge and if you're transitioning out there I don't even care if you're transitioning.
You're not in the military and you're transitioning Ellis Craig. and so, and I know you can help you guys. Alice, thank you so much, my friend. Please tell Natasha I said hello. And again, if you ever need anyone to answer your phones or run your social media, Nicole and I, we're here, but do our targeted resumes.
Absolutely, targeted resumes, that's right. I can't help but get pictures. That's right, Mario. We got to stay after it, yeah. And thank you so much for hosting me today. This is awesome. I appreciate it.
Well, everyone, until next time, you guys know the deal. Don't forget again, if you want me to say thank you on the loyal fan shout out, and I look forward to doing that. Hit me up at host at unarmoredtalk .com.
That's hosted on unarmoredtalk .com. Until the next episode, God bless you all. God bless your families and friends and be safe. Thank you for listening to this most recent episode. And remember, you can listen.
and watch all of the previous episodes on my YouTube channel. The best way to connect to me and all of my social media is follow me on the Parade Deck. That is www .paradedeck .com or you can click on the link in the show notes.
I'll see you guys soon.